Great timing on this. I'm a professionally trained (though independent) editor and just about to open submissions to give sample feedback of the sort you would have received in that workshop.
I would be hesitant, though, about making it a rule that the protagonist and their flaws have to show up on the first page; that's a good approach, but there are others that can work just as well, depending on your goals. I do agree, however, with the vague principle that 'story' should be apparent from the get-go.
Famously (and author controversy aside), The Name of the Wind begins with the 3 part silence. It immediately creates mystery and atmosphere, and wraps the story within it, filling the reader with anticipation about what's inside. So, a setting can, in fact, be your opener. It just has to move, and not feel like a static description.
Oh I love that you mentioned Name of the Wind Dan, it’s one of my all-time favorite books, and Rothfuss is probably my favorite fantasy author even though he didn’t deliver his third book in the Kingkiller series. His writing is such an undeniable force but I have to admit that even the rabid fan that I am found his opening kind of slow. Beautifully written for sure, but slow. I wonder if I ever wrote an opening like that, if an agent would keep reading just out of appreciation for the prose. It’s hard to say, I’m such an outsider to the publishing industry. I’m going to try and rework the first page while still being true to my story and the voice, but who knows if that will work any better. Thanks for the reminder though, that’s this was just a handful of agents, not the whole publishing industry!
The only thing that matters is that your readers like it. That’s it.
Stop being a perfectionist.
It feels like you are trying to write for a grade. To get an A on the assignment.
Speak to please the world; write to please yourself.
It’s better to have false hope and optimism than to shackle your zest in self-doubt.
These literary critics have just read way too much in their lives.
There is no book that is 100% popular by everyone. Even if only 10% like it and the rest don’t, that’s still better than the 0% from never releasing it.
Optimism is the ONLY thing that matters in life. I’m getting more convinced of this every day.
It also feels like you are tying too much of your self worth and identity into being a writer.
You are Noorjahan. The Light of the World. That’s the meaning of your name.
You are The Light of the World. Nothing more, nothing less.
You exist to bring Light into the World. Your book is simply just one of the infinite amount of ways to do that.
Those critics tried to squash your light.
I believe that for some people, constructive criticism is overrated and unhinged confidence is needed. For others the opposite is better.
You my friend, need unhinged confidence. You need a person to hype you up. You need to feed your words into ChatGPT and ask it if it’s good. It’ll be like “This is awesome!” You will feel good. This will spread to the people around you.
But the HARDEST challenge to overcome …. Is freeing yourself from the attachment to the outcome.
If writing this book gives you joy, but it gets no sales and bad reviews ….
I have no advice for that. Because I haven’t conquered it myself.
It’s the Final Challenge in life.
Writing a successful book is not the challenge. Writing a book and FREEING YOURSELF from the attachment of the results is.
I believe your "first page" must be there somewhere... I know when I read most books I don't get hooked on the first page. Hopefully, by the end of the first chapter... but sometimes that hook comes in chapter 2 or chapter 3. Where ever that hook is, I think that is where the "first page" that editors and agent are looking for is. Don't let lazy readers tell you what your work is worth.
Thank you for sharing your journey. There is universality in what you share. I have been pummeled by rejection many times - as a lawyer, as a coach/business owner, as a cancer patient and now, as a writer wanting to share my thoughts. What have I learned? Stay curious! It’s the way to peer around the corners, find glimmers of light in the dark caves, unearth some new nugget of knowledge. It’s what you are doing. I applaud your writing AND your deep curiosity. Keep at it!
Thanks for sharing this with us, Noor! As some people said above, I fear this may encourage some writers to stick to some known formula. That format can work but not all do.
Also it's not the end of the world if the first page doesn't grab the reader. I was bored by the first chapter of The Hunger Games. But somewhere in chapter 2, I was hooked and now I'm a big fan of the books!
P.S. Didn't you write an article about masterpieces that most people don't want to read? LOL. Some award winning books are famously boring to most people too... Reading is so subjective. So the agents' feedback is very helpful, but take it with a grain of salt! Perhaps they are not your target audience.
P.S. 2. Noor, if you don't mind me asking, is there a reason why you want to do traditional publishing rather than self-publishing? (No judgment. Either path can work depending on your goals and circumstances!)
Thank you for this perspective Sieran! You’re right that I am trying to fit myself into a box somewhat. It’s just that traditional publishing is so hard to break into, I want to give myself every chance I can to make it.
In terms of traditional vs self publishing, it’s just that traditional publishing is more capable of distributing physical books in bookstores and getting the kind of national reach I’m not sure I can get with self publishing. Also, there’s something affirming about having experienced editors from publishing houses go through the book with a keen eye to get it into shape before it’s shared with the world. I’d like to have that group of professional outsiders make an investment in my work rather than me having to pay for it. But that might not be in the cards for me; I haven’t ruled out self of hybrid publishing.
Noor, thanks for sharing the truth of your journey! I was right there with you as you waited for the agents to read and their hands to shoot up. Definitely stick with it. I have a draft and am nervous to share it too; you don't learn anything if you don't share. Every time I go back to reread a page, there's something to improve. You have the chops and the determination. So keep going!!
I had a very similar experience recently and I have to admit it knocked me off my game. I didn’t write for a couple of weeks, and just started posting on Substack again. But I agree with the insights you gained from the experience and won’t give up the dream. Keep on writing!
Big round of applause for you for using that experience as a positive to further your novel writing craft! I too left a legal career (over 30 years ago) to write. The first fiction story I submitted in a class was reviewed by the instructor as " the most organized story I've ever read." Did I mention I was a law professor who taught legal writing? :) Even after I sold my first novel to Bantam, I amassed mountains of rejections. I ended up walking away from novel writing for many years to freelance online content, and now I ghostwrite. Ghostwriting novellas and novels and screenplays and memoirs now has given me back some of my confidence, and I'm turning again to my own work. It is so challenging to separate harsh feedback from true feedback because what is good and not good in the literary world is a very subjective thing. I think you're so wise to use the feedback to reassess your work. Take what helps you get better and let the rest go. And by the way, I think some of the most successful books have seriously boring first pages. So there you go. :)
Love this. Thank you for sharing your experience, which could not have been easy, and more importantly, for sharing your learnings and your introspection. Each "rejection" is a step closer on your journey. Keep going!
Noor, I'm sorry and I'm glad you did this. I've been on quite a few of those panels for various events, most recently at WDW DC and Toronto --First and foremost, this should not deter you. It's a learning experience.
1. NO agent is judging a submission (in real life) by a single page. If you open with a cliche (like waking up, looking in the mirror etc.) you are going to get flagged in this particular event. In real life, you'll get an eye roll and more will be read. By the 3rd strike of writing faux pas, it's usually over.
2. The good thing about these events is to hear all the issues that are found in everybody else's work so you know what to avoid -- for the issues that are objective - not someone's pet peeve. Certain things bug agents because they see it a million times and the name of the game is standing out by not being the same as everybody else.
During my event: Mousy brown hair, honeyed hair and flecks of gold in eyes were included in the descriptions so many times, even the audience groaned.
3. This last event I was at, we finished about 6 pages as well. I requested 1 of those 6 - I read the entire thing and in the end the story wasn't strong enough for me to take on.
4. Opening on action is great - but if it's someone being chased or some other chaotic thing, it's just chaos without context. We have no idea who, where, why etc. so readers have nothing to care about. So getting grounded is important. If something happens by page 3... OK... but are we struggling that whole time just to figure out what's happening? That's not good either.
Great timing on this. I'm a professionally trained (though independent) editor and just about to open submissions to give sample feedback of the sort you would have received in that workshop.
I would be hesitant, though, about making it a rule that the protagonist and their flaws have to show up on the first page; that's a good approach, but there are others that can work just as well, depending on your goals. I do agree, however, with the vague principle that 'story' should be apparent from the get-go.
Famously (and author controversy aside), The Name of the Wind begins with the 3 part silence. It immediately creates mystery and atmosphere, and wraps the story within it, filling the reader with anticipation about what's inside. So, a setting can, in fact, be your opener. It just has to move, and not feel like a static description.
Oh I love that you mentioned Name of the Wind Dan, it’s one of my all-time favorite books, and Rothfuss is probably my favorite fantasy author even though he didn’t deliver his third book in the Kingkiller series. His writing is such an undeniable force but I have to admit that even the rabid fan that I am found his opening kind of slow. Beautifully written for sure, but slow. I wonder if I ever wrote an opening like that, if an agent would keep reading just out of appreciation for the prose. It’s hard to say, I’m such an outsider to the publishing industry. I’m going to try and rework the first page while still being true to my story and the voice, but who knows if that will work any better. Thanks for the reminder though, that’s this was just a handful of agents, not the whole publishing industry!
I’m going to yell at you.
1. Why the hell are you going to workshops?????
The only thing that matters is that your readers like it. That’s it.
Stop being a perfectionist.
It feels like you are trying to write for a grade. To get an A on the assignment.
Speak to please the world; write to please yourself.
It’s better to have false hope and optimism than to shackle your zest in self-doubt.
These literary critics have just read way too much in their lives.
There is no book that is 100% popular by everyone. Even if only 10% like it and the rest don’t, that’s still better than the 0% from never releasing it.
Optimism is the ONLY thing that matters in life. I’m getting more convinced of this every day.
It also feels like you are tying too much of your self worth and identity into being a writer.
You are Noorjahan. The Light of the World. That’s the meaning of your name.
You are The Light of the World. Nothing more, nothing less.
You exist to bring Light into the World. Your book is simply just one of the infinite amount of ways to do that.
Those critics tried to squash your light.
I believe that for some people, constructive criticism is overrated and unhinged confidence is needed. For others the opposite is better.
You my friend, need unhinged confidence. You need a person to hype you up. You need to feed your words into ChatGPT and ask it if it’s good. It’ll be like “This is awesome!” You will feel good. This will spread to the people around you.
But the HARDEST challenge to overcome …. Is freeing yourself from the attachment to the outcome.
If writing this book gives you joy, but it gets no sales and bad reviews ….
I have no advice for that. Because I haven’t conquered it myself.
It’s the Final Challenge in life.
Writing a successful book is not the challenge. Writing a book and FREEING YOURSELF from the attachment of the results is.
Love this passionate pep talk Rohan! Lucky to have you in my corner!
I believe your "first page" must be there somewhere... I know when I read most books I don't get hooked on the first page. Hopefully, by the end of the first chapter... but sometimes that hook comes in chapter 2 or chapter 3. Where ever that hook is, I think that is where the "first page" that editors and agent are looking for is. Don't let lazy readers tell you what your work is worth.
Thank you :)
This was great . I’m in an MFA program right now and the way they structure things is safe but seems would not pass the first page
Thank you for sharing your journey. There is universality in what you share. I have been pummeled by rejection many times - as a lawyer, as a coach/business owner, as a cancer patient and now, as a writer wanting to share my thoughts. What have I learned? Stay curious! It’s the way to peer around the corners, find glimmers of light in the dark caves, unearth some new nugget of knowledge. It’s what you are doing. I applaud your writing AND your deep curiosity. Keep at it!
Thank you for the encouragement! 🙏🏽
Thanks for sharing this with us, Noor! As some people said above, I fear this may encourage some writers to stick to some known formula. That format can work but not all do.
Also it's not the end of the world if the first page doesn't grab the reader. I was bored by the first chapter of The Hunger Games. But somewhere in chapter 2, I was hooked and now I'm a big fan of the books!
P.S. Didn't you write an article about masterpieces that most people don't want to read? LOL. Some award winning books are famously boring to most people too... Reading is so subjective. So the agents' feedback is very helpful, but take it with a grain of salt! Perhaps they are not your target audience.
P.S. 2. Noor, if you don't mind me asking, is there a reason why you want to do traditional publishing rather than self-publishing? (No judgment. Either path can work depending on your goals and circumstances!)
Thank you for this perspective Sieran! You’re right that I am trying to fit myself into a box somewhat. It’s just that traditional publishing is so hard to break into, I want to give myself every chance I can to make it.
In terms of traditional vs self publishing, it’s just that traditional publishing is more capable of distributing physical books in bookstores and getting the kind of national reach I’m not sure I can get with self publishing. Also, there’s something affirming about having experienced editors from publishing houses go through the book with a keen eye to get it into shape before it’s shared with the world. I’d like to have that group of professional outsiders make an investment in my work rather than me having to pay for it. But that might not be in the cards for me; I haven’t ruled out self of hybrid publishing.
Hey it’s another Nur/Noor on substack. I’ll have to subscribe in solidarity 🤣
Awesome! Hello fellow Nur/Noor!
Noor, thanks for sharing the truth of your journey! I was right there with you as you waited for the agents to read and their hands to shoot up. Definitely stick with it. I have a draft and am nervous to share it too; you don't learn anything if you don't share. Every time I go back to reread a page, there's something to improve. You have the chops and the determination. So keep going!!
Thank you Ashley, and ditto! I love your writing, please keep doing it.
Thanks for this vulnerability, Noor! Sounds like you metabolize criticism well (and fairly quickly!) which bodes well for your journey.
🙌🏽
I had a very similar experience recently and I have to admit it knocked me off my game. I didn’t write for a couple of weeks, and just started posting on Substack again. But I agree with the insights you gained from the experience and won’t give up the dream. Keep on writing!
Thanks Laurie, and I’m glad you’ve found your way back to writing too!
You did make it as a lawyer, not an easy profession to master. I bet you’ll figure this out.
Thank you Karen! 🙏🏽
Big round of applause for you for using that experience as a positive to further your novel writing craft! I too left a legal career (over 30 years ago) to write. The first fiction story I submitted in a class was reviewed by the instructor as " the most organized story I've ever read." Did I mention I was a law professor who taught legal writing? :) Even after I sold my first novel to Bantam, I amassed mountains of rejections. I ended up walking away from novel writing for many years to freelance online content, and now I ghostwrite. Ghostwriting novellas and novels and screenplays and memoirs now has given me back some of my confidence, and I'm turning again to my own work. It is so challenging to separate harsh feedback from true feedback because what is good and not good in the literary world is a very subjective thing. I think you're so wise to use the feedback to reassess your work. Take what helps you get better and let the rest go. And by the way, I think some of the most successful books have seriously boring first pages. So there you go. :)
Thank you so much Marie! Your comment means a lot, coming from someone who has sold a book and also ghostwritten several!
Love this. Thank you for sharing your experience, which could not have been easy, and more importantly, for sharing your learnings and your introspection. Each "rejection" is a step closer on your journey. Keep going!
Thank you Junna! 🙏🏽
Noor, I'm sorry and I'm glad you did this. I've been on quite a few of those panels for various events, most recently at WDW DC and Toronto --First and foremost, this should not deter you. It's a learning experience.
1. NO agent is judging a submission (in real life) by a single page. If you open with a cliche (like waking up, looking in the mirror etc.) you are going to get flagged in this particular event. In real life, you'll get an eye roll and more will be read. By the 3rd strike of writing faux pas, it's usually over.
2. The good thing about these events is to hear all the issues that are found in everybody else's work so you know what to avoid -- for the issues that are objective - not someone's pet peeve. Certain things bug agents because they see it a million times and the name of the game is standing out by not being the same as everybody else.
During my event: Mousy brown hair, honeyed hair and flecks of gold in eyes were included in the descriptions so many times, even the audience groaned.
3. This last event I was at, we finished about 6 pages as well. I requested 1 of those 6 - I read the entire thing and in the end the story wasn't strong enough for me to take on.
4. Opening on action is great - but if it's someone being chased or some other chaotic thing, it's just chaos without context. We have no idea who, where, why etc. so readers have nothing to care about. So getting grounded is important. If something happens by page 3... OK... but are we struggling that whole time just to figure out what's happening? That's not good either.
Anyway, that's my two cents.